Ringing Forums

I am very sorry to hear about AJB.

I'm happy to hear that things are rosy in your area of the ringing world, but the national data that we do have suggests the opposite is true in many other areas. Can you lay out how that was achieved in your area? If there are are areas that have this problem cracked, I think it's important to share experiences so that struggling areas can learn from them — John de Overa

Gladly. In one phrase "community spirit". In more detail -

A strong and committed territorial association (Ely Diocesan Association of Church Bell Ringers), providing training and support.
A few public-spirited Spliced Surprise Maximus ringers who are not too proud to roll up their sleeves and teach basic bell handling to the same person for a very large number of weeks and months. You know who you are!
A larger number of decent ringers who enjoy pitching in and being part of a big group that works for the benefit of all.
A lot of lovely people who turn out week after week to not only ring for services, but also maintain the churchyard, set up for the church garden party, offer to change your wheel for you when you have a puncture and so on. They will never be great ringers, but they are the sort of people you are glad you know.
Willingness on the part of teachers and tower captains to celebrate what our ringers can do, not give up on them because they will never reach a high standard.

Reading the other posts, I am just musing if a town-country divide is apparent. It seems that correspondents in towns and cities are depressed because they see their bands declining in skill: perhaps they can no longer ring Surprise Major. Whereas correspondents in country areas are delighted because they see church & village communities kept flourishing by people who can only ring plain hunt.
Maybe what you see depends on how you see it.
Just pointing out - what do you actually do when you ring Spliced Surprise Maximus? You move up one place, or down one place, or lie still. What do you do when you ring plain hunt doubles? It's the same thing!

Phillip, I agree with you. Right now, in our villages, ringing is being kept going, our communities are flourishing, ringers are recruited, supported and trained to the maximum that they are capable of. This I believe is an achievement to celebrate.

Ditto. It will be interesting to see if they have grasped (what I perceive as) reality. — A J Barnfield

I am really hoping Yellow Yoyo will have me dressed in a yellow woolly jumpsuit, bouncing up and down on the end of a bell rope.

What would be the point of trying to teach advanced methods to someone who was just interested in service ringing, for example? — John de Overa

Well, from a religious point of view, service ringing is a way of giving glory to God. So somebody who is "just interested in service ringing" ought to be very highly motivated to develop their God-given talent to the utmost. This would be analogous to a great composer composing sublime music for the sung Mass.

As people have said above, ringers have many different motivations. So I would say any CC master plan for attracting, improving and retaining them has to bear that in mind.
Perhaps in the past there was too much focus on duty and service; nevertheless this motivated some people to give of their very best. If these concepts are now regarded as off-putting, and in its place ariseth the strategy of Yellow YoYo (which I can't wait to see), doubtless there will be some other actual or potential ringers who are put off by that.
There is unlikely to be one right answer, so can I ask, please, that any strategy takes account of that.

Thanks John, that's democratic as far as I am concerned :).
It's just a general problem I see with the subcommittee/workgroup structure - if the six or so people on the subcommittee don't like your idea then they have an effective veto. They probably will tend to agree with each other; otherwise they wouldn't be able to work with each other and would have fallen out before now. That makes for rather more of an oligarchy to my way of thinking.
Whereas, if you have a flat structure, so everyone votes on everything, you have a larger pool of people with more diverse views, so probably some will agree with you.

Thanks John, that's good to know. So suppose a CC rep has an idea, but can't get the relevant committee interested in it. Can they stand up at the annual meeting and say "I think we should do xyz"? That would be my test for democracy.

Well yes, one might reasonably think that. But then suppose one has an idea, goes to the relevant committee, is unable to get them interested, idea is stymied. What does one do then? If there is some measure of direct democracy then one has at some point a chance to stand up and impart one's idea to the whole group directly. To me that freedom is essential.

My view is that what makes an organisation democratic is "Can an individual's voice be heard?". So from what Simon says - yes, it is less democratic in that individuals get fewer chances to make their voices heard. Personally I don't mind, but if I were a council member then I probably would mind because I would get less chance to shape policy directly..

John de Overa, you are very right that progress is a case of "not what you know, but who you know". I was lucky in that my teacher introduced me to very good ringers who were willing to put up with me and give me a chance. But it shouldn't depend on that. I know that this is exactly what the CC is trying to address with its new NW ringing course.

Yes that would be a good idea, John. Although I think the CC might say "we are here to organise; we can't be the do-ers as well".
Um, this is awfully naff, but what about a rosette/badge for every ringer in the country? Like "I rang for KCIII Coronation". With "CCCBR" around the edge. To be delivered with big fanfare about what the CC has been doing (which I know it has, so would be absolutely true).

I would say that the problem is that the Central Council is not "seen" at all by the majority of ringers. I don't think they are enough aware of it to care in the least whether or not it is democratic.
Occasionally I try to tell my band about CC work. But my impression is that, by the time I have uttered the mouthful "Central Council of Church Bell Ringers", they have logged it as "not interesting" and switched off.
So I would say, Central Council, keep up your great work, but you need to do something that makes you visible (or maybe audible?) to every single ringer in the country!

I had a quick look at the package, as this post intrigued me. I did not like the sound of iKnowChurch at all. It seemed very controlling and invasive of privacy, e.g. "have oversight of your church people", "ensure no church visitor or member goes unnoticed", "Centralise all your church communication".

Thanks John. Simon - happy to make a donation to whatever you wish in exchange for being allowed to download John's conversion. Just lmk.

Roger Booth, of course your points are very sensible. But - here's a fairy story about a four-bell tower with a happy ending!
At the Millennium, the PCC of All Saints' Landbeach decided to restart ringing. The Ely Diocesan Association stepped up to provide teachers and training courses. And oodles of support, which has continued until the present day.
In the succeeding years, both church and band had their difficulties but hung on in there.
In 2022, both church and band are growing and enthusiastic (and solvent) and the PCC have decided to augment to six. Yippee! Church and band are looking forward to the future with enthusiasm.
So my point is - vision and drive are found in sometimes unlikely places, so don't write anywhere off!

I agree that this is desirable, Nigel.
I have tried to teach plain hunt before call changes, by the route that you suggest, but have always ended up focussing on call changes, because the student needed to know them in order to ring with others.
I would say that the best order depends on the student's aptitudes. Yes, some students find call changes difficult and plain hunt easy and in that case by all means teach them plain hunt first. But some students struggle to think quickly enough to count and remember places in plain hunt, so for them I think it is kinder to let them first take as much time as they need to get good at call changes.

Thank you folks for these useful ideas.

Thanks John.