Ringing Forums

It's coming. We have a second article in this coming Ringing World and then probably one more and then we'll have more stuff published. The most important stuff is what we commissioned two days ago which is starting the creative process, which we will get to review in a couple of month's time.

A key part of that discussion with yyy is how we want to start using new designs and messages and we said the priority was having outward facing stuff that ringers could start to use for recruiting in the first half of next year. I remembered what you had said about wanting to use it, and having a few campaigns which would test stuff out will be really useful.

So we were talking about the outward facing recruitment website (a bit like what is on bellringing.org), an adaptable powerpoint presentation, banners, posters, leaflets, etc. We will be asking what the most useful things are likely to be so we can prioritise them.

I agree with @Lucy Chandhial that the pathway isn't different, just the amount of time needed. People from time to time in this group and elsewhere suggest that adults can learn as quickly as youngsters but I see no evidence of that at all, except for ringers who have been learning methods, compositions, etc all their lives and are still as good at is now as they were when they were younger.

Example from my own tower - adult, middle aged, been learning Cambridge Minor for more than two years, gets a plain course every week and has only just managed to keep a clean sheet. This person is not stupid, they succeed in life generally, but learning a method and remembering it from week to week just does not come easily. Compare that with the 15 year old who I asked to look at Cambridge Minor at the start of the practice a couple of weeks ago, and rang it that evening. Not faultless, but he put the mistakes down as part of the learning process and erased them such that now he can ring it without a mistake. I am sure the aforementioned adult would have learned it as quickly had he been learning methods when he was 15.

Practicing on a simulator does seem to be part of the answer. I know there's lots the sim doesn't teach you but if it helps to embed that line without the learning process needing other human beings then that's great. Adults generally tend not to like making mistakes in the company of others, while youngsters just see it as part of learning. When my daughter Charlie crashed her way through something a little while back after a sub-optimal amount of homework she just called it 'experiential learning'!

Ooops - thanks

I wonder if that was a piece of ringing set up specifically for recording or it just happened to be recorded by someone

Indeed!

I know this thread has strayed from the original question (about which I sympathise greatly) but this fixation on needing to develop method ringing at all cost is something I have been trying to get away from. We started thinking about it in Birmingham when we had learners who stopped the Learning the Ropes scheme once they rung call changes, tenor behind etc, but then were not going to progress any further. We didn't want them to think they had failed, because they hadn't. If we had created a happy ringer who could strike rounds and call changes well then that was a perfectly good outcome.

I think about one band who we taught who, had we taken them down a route of ringing call changes like they do in the South West, they would be really enjoying it and doing it well, but they all moved on to ring Bob Doubles and Grandsire which given they all do it with each other is a less than satisfactory experience. I think we did them a disservice.

I have developed a mild obsession for Devon call change ringing, but I keep going to practices and thinking how much better the ringing would be if the band was really focused on call changes and striking as you do when you master 60 on 3rds or similar. The focus on striking it gives you is really good and when you get it right it is as fulfilling as mastering any method.

nice list

I am mentioning this in my blog this week as a few people have asked. We have a third party specialist trailer manufacturer working on the trailer design. They are a bit slow because they are very busy but Roger Booth is on their case and was hoping to see them this week or next.

Interestingly I have had correspondence with Paul Ashe, who runs the National Bell Festival https://www.bells.org/ and he has had a flurry of enquiries from the UK asking about bell projects. bells.org must be coming up in searches for people wanting to find out about bells. I have steered him in the direction of Bell Projects as the guide to give them.

I do that one, although it does lend to slightly contrived handling. Another neat trick to illustrate a point is to pull off the handstroke, do the hand transfer and then take the left hand away, so the backstroke is only done with the right hand. You cannot do that unless your right hand transfer is good.

Isn't there a novel new design for the stay/slider mechanism at St Clements Cambridge?

I think Open Days need to be viewed as more than just revenue generating exercises, because they are not really very good at doing that these days. Although there is little direct benefit to the organising area, Open Days are part of the joy and variety of ringing and in organsin them we provide opportunities and experiences for our fellow ringers. They are particularly good for giving young ringers the opportunity to ring at different places - I certainly scoured the classified section of the RW when I was a young learner looking for tower grab opportunities - and if you can throw in a few rare towers to satisfy avid grabbers there can be something for everyone.

I agree that broadening the horizons is valuable and that is one of the things the YCRA is intending to achieve by bringing ringers together from further afield. My daughter Charlie is now constrantly on WhatsApp chatting to ringing friends who are more than 100 miles away, but they follow each others activities from afar. There were two ringers who met at the RWNYC last year who found that they were at school together, but didn't know each other were ringers because their local towers were in different assoiations and hence there was no mechanism for them to have met. Geography is less of a barrier for young people and they are not constrained by these territorial boundaries.

It sounds like you are doing the right thing with the Berks and Bucks young ringers but an additional thing you can do is start to forge alliances with other young ringers groups. Also finding the young ringers at towers who are isolated and getting them seeing that there are other young ringers like them. If young ringers know more other young ringers, the chance of them giving up when them leave home and go to uni or into work will diminish.

How many of your B&B young ringers don't have ringing parents? What I have found with the Brumdingers, which is really just a tower band plus visitors - keeping ringing on the radar of the kids whose parents are not ringers is really hard. I found out that one of the reasons that one of them went to Taekwando for a couple of weeks instead of ringing was that her mum paid for the Tawkwando so she thought it was more valuable. Brumdingers pay £2 a week but it's notional really - it pays for the snacks, Tshirts and a bit of travel. I wish I'd initially set it high but I was nervous charging at all.

I have now got one of these to test

I agree with John - definitely let people locally know that you are looking for peal ringing opportunities. Tell Andrew Kelso for instance and he might also put you in touch with others. Unfortunately there are not enough peal organisers who will go out of their way to try and include new people in their peals, and it needs you to be proactive.

That's a nice thought. Learn to ring and you get 30,000 new friends.

We had that on a quarter peal tour when we were youngsters. We were given £100 by a desperate producer not to ring a quarter and it paid for our food for the rest of the week!

We are straying away from the original question which was whether we should charge for filming requests, especially ones where the benefit to ringing is at best marginal. This has certainly been the case for some of the later RtfK enquiries which were from overseas news agencies. Usually we are delighted to have media attention, and we seem to have got away from the media seeing ringing as one of the 'fun' stories to something they take seriously, but some of the requests we have had have looked to be much more trouble than they're worth.

I was going to say exactly the same thing. The District/Branch is the effective unit of organisation really, and if that isn't working the onus falls on towers and individuals to get things organised themselves. Martyn highlights quite how difficult that is if there is a lack of critical mass or motivation at any organisation level that currently exists. @Martyn Bristow your branch or district is not unique, and actually there aren't many ringing associations who see their role as facilitating the development of their members by providing peal ringing opportunities. That is left to the 'market' and the 'market' comprises people who want to organise peals and need to find ringers for them. Once you're 'in' and known to be a peal ringer it tends to open you up to more opportunities.

Some associations do have annual peal days which encourage peals for people who are keen but don't know how to break in. The Lichfield & Walsall are a good example - I think they have a peal week to encourage members to ring peals and encourage the ringing of firsts above all else.

There are not many peal organisers who will actively look for people to who to provide opportunities. Most are operating with quite closed groups, where they know what they are getting. Or they might be motivated by providing opportunities to young ringers they wish to encourage. There are some though and it is a question of finding who they are in your area.

I'll have a chat with Colin Newman when I next see him as he has been leading the work with these groups - I'll get this to read this @Mr Colin G Newman. I struggle myself with knowing exactly how to describe Scouts and Guides now, given 'Girlguiding' is now the term used. All those of a certain age know what Scouts and Guides means, but I am not quite sure what is technically correct.