Ringing Forums

I agree 100% with . We have local experience of this and I would not recommend it.

:ok: We now have a spider, my request is withdrawn.

Many thanks to all the contributors to this thread - lots of ideas here, and ways to make a really rich experience.

For the lady who can't hunt to 5ths place, the band could try "rounds and back rounds": (credit to St Pauls in the Jewlellery quarter for this exercise).
Put confident ringers on the 1 and the 6.
Explain "back rounds means you will look the other way", for the visual ringers.

- start in rounds until they have settled down.
- call back rounds with 2 blows warning.
- the tenor (6) maintains their speed, the other follow in reverse order, continue until back rounds has settled down
- call rounds with 2 blows warning
- treble maintains speed, everyone else follows in rounds

This exercise helps because it requires everyone to hold up. It is conceptually easy.

Hi Sarah,
If you could find a clearere recording in which the individual bells can be made out, it might help with the diagnosis. As Stedman is one of the easier methods to hear, it should be possible to confirm Graham's answer.

Oh dear, I uploaded the wrong screenshot in my last comment and I can't see how to edit it. This is the correct one:

I have added "stedman with slow starts" into Abel (see below) and everything is fine until the calls start, when Abel seems to miscount the plain leads and consistently does each bob or single either one or 2 leads too soon. I have fudged the composition by adding in lots of plain calls until it works as it should, but can anyone spot what I am doing wrong? The "bug" occurs whether or not Bristol is part of the composition, so I believe the problem definitely is something in my method definition.

Thanks



----------------------------------------------------
Example:
For example, to get this fragment of the composition to work:
Stedman 4.8.9.10.11

You would expect Abel to want:

p p p b    p p p b b b b

But this misses lots of "Plains" so I added in 2 before the 1st bob and 2 more before the second:

p pp pp b    p pp pp b b b b 

thank you! I am so grateful.

It sounds as if the practice night has become a victim of its own success! If this is not your home tower, you don't have to keep attending.

I agree with Lucy, even without an opportunity to ring Cambridge, you can still be improving your skills. I found in that "aiming for Cambridge" phase, the most valuable rope time was a local "Plain Bob doubles and minor only" practice which I attended as a helper. It helped to embed the dodging positions properly and made the bobs and singles completely familiar.

I discovered when teaching Maths in school, that many who struggle with a new concept have no idea what the problem is, they just feel blocked and often react by trying to avoid the discomfort that invokes. This leads to a lot of stress for the learner and massive frustration for the teacher. Learning to Ring is MUCH harder than learning Maths. But, across both worlds, the key to shifting these blockages is to identify the missing micro-skills and work on those first.
I have watched many (older) people struggle to progress beyong plain hunt and I believe that we expect them to pick up a myriad of micro-skills by magic, much faster than they possibly can.
The danger is we may over-focus on ropesight and memorising the circle of work, when the missing micro-skills are mostly around bell handling. The plain hunt they have "mastered" is actually badly struck. They are not yet ready for bob doubles!
Progress can be made if you do bell handling exercise such as "rounds and back rounds" (which teaches people to hold up), and break plain bob into separate sections by ringing "funny bob doubles" instead. This method lets the learner ring for example 3-4 down repeatedly during a touch, and once they are confident, progressing on to 3-4 up etc. https://ringingteachers.org/application/files/8316/1426/5228/Funny_Bob_Doubles.pdf
These lessons have definitely brought some of my friends on - their striking has improved for call changes and plain hunt, and they relish the progress they are making.

Thanks everyone, plenty here to help me complete my programming.

I understand from your reply that you have rung some QPs but you have not used your real name on Bellboard.

Were you not aware that your "ringing CV" is built largely on your Bellboard record? And that when you seek new opportunities, people will check this CV to see whether your plans are realistic?

"You are not on Bellboard. Why do you not use your actual name" - Jason Carter

I have wondered this as well, John De Overa. Have you ring quarter peals under a different name? You mentioned above "I am not up to quarter peal standard". Do you mean in general, or just in reference to Surprise Major?

PS. Sorry that probably came across as patronising. My experience included getting stuck against the glass ceiling of Surprise Major for about 5 years. I had to solve 4 problems:
- inadequate bell handling and hence poor striking
- lack of awareness of what position I was in at all times
- complete lack of ability to "see" blue lines in my mind's eye (and therefore inability to memorise them).
- because of my age, a snail's pace of transforming rope time into mastery. I had to turn a monthly opportunity to ring Surprise Major into a weekly one.

These 4 issues were diagnosed by various expert masters and rectified by relevant training and a HUGE amount of homeworkon my part. (Particularly to overcome my poor retention of blue lines.

Oliver, your situation sounds very frustrating.
You are unusually fortunate to be in a tower where cambridge major is regularly rung, I wouldn’t be in a hurry to change tower.
2 suggestions:

- Aim to ring *well* every time you catch hold. If you are only being asked to ring rounds then try to ring them to perfection. Ask a good ringer whom you trust to give you regular feedback on your striking.

- Ask your trusted good ringer what you should be working on. Maybe Cambridge isn't the ideal goal for this year?

Once you have found (or set up) a practice which includes your target methods, you may find it helpful to put in a lot of homework before each session. Have you tried:
- writing out the blue line of the plain course, starting with any bell.
- use android apps like blueline or methodology to "write" out the blue line and get an error count as you go.
- Use Abel (windows) to "ring" plain touches, touches and quarter peals. If you use the "moving ringers" option, it may help you to strengthen your rope sight, and enables you to do things that are impossible to do in the real world, like slowing right down to ring a difficult phrase, and repeatedly ringing the same phrase until you get it right. Abel will give you a score and you should be able to judge whether or not you are are ready to catch hold in the real world and try something.
Obviously Abel doesn't help with bell handling, but it does help with listening skills, and checking you really do know a blue line.

Thanks John.

2 issues have been raised in this thread - local coordination to make best use of the existing skills and enthusiasm, and developing new recruits as effectively as possible. I think Roger's District is probably completely typical, that so many ringers would rather do their own thing than aim for something less parochial. This has also played out locally. It isn't just new recruits that have struggled for ropes - I'm not good enough to be involved in my own band's (12 bell) peal, but I put the word out and am delighted to be included in a local 6-bell peal, and quarter, for another band. Some sort of "ringers' bank" for special occasions would be brilliant, I would definitely sign up. After all, one's competence is pretty easily judged by a quick glance at Bellboard!

" I do feel rather guilty as I creep out of the door after we've finished ringing. I suspect I may not be alone in that."

The trick is to rush off to the next tower. Once you have notched up 2 Sunday rings, the guilt evaporates beautifully.

"And as a late starter I don't think I'll realistically progress much beyond Minor ringing anyway.
" ... "A lot of people at my level struggling to make progress... "


I have come to believe it is a misconception to see progress in terms of which methods one can ring/score. Being good at ringing is not really about ringing impossibly difficult blue lines, or even engaging with blue lines at all. It is about creating a fluent, gorgeous rhythm with a ring of bells. I see people struggling to progress but it seems to me that they are struggling with the wrong issues. The key skill is striking, which is a combination of physical bell control, accurate listening and good teamwork. Working on these skills, like mastering any musical instrument, is a combination of practice and getting and implementing excellent feedback. I am (honestly) happy and proud to ring beautifully struck call changes. And the people who are best at that are.... (around here) the Peal Ringers.