Ringing Forums

I didn't say a lot of websites have an updated indicator, I said that a good one will. I suppose commercial websites don't have an incentive to do that, but I would have thought 'community' websites, like ringing ones, do because it gives confidence that they are being maintained. . The sites I manage all say when the site was updated on the home page, and most other pages include an automatically generated date. It's not rocket science.

agreed people know that a report is printed once a year whereas a website may be updated much more (or occasionally less) often, but in both cases there is no indication of whether a particular item has changed since then.
The difference is that if the information had changed since then a report will definitely be wrong whereas a website will probably be correct (but not guaranteed).
Most people are conscientious, and a website enables them to keep information up to date. A few are not conscientious, but don't blame that on the communication medium.
A good website will tell you when it was last updated. That doesn't guarantee everything on it will be correct but it's a good indication of how 'live' it is.

Websites have always suffered from being out of date the moment after they are publishe — Steve Farmer

Any more than printed reports?

we recently had a Tower Correspondent who declined to have their postal or email address or landline or mobile number published anywhere — PeterScott

I wonder what he/she thought the word 'correspondent' meant.

Thanks. I'll follow that up.

I don't know whether or not there are performance limitations, but there must be some downside or the bell hangers would use them for everything. I suspect they cost a bit more because there are more parts. They also have bolts that need checking for tightness, which a conventional clapper doesn't.

we generally try and avoid more than 2 learners to 1 handling instructor as we don't have the resources to offer instruction outside of the practice nights. — Tristan Lockheart

We do handling instruction separate from practice night in one to one sessions and in practice it would be difficult to manage more than one or two at a time.
However in the late 70s we took groups of 6 or 7 at a time, with one of us teaching thesm in the same session. I don't know how we managed it but we got amazing success rates. From memory of the first group, 6 started, 5 became regular ringers and 4 of them rang Surprise Major.

I heard it and I sent them an explanatory email. It will be interesting to see if I get a reply

it's now official CCCBR policy that adult learners aren't who ringing wants, — John de Overa

I wasn't aware of that. Can you give a link to the relevant policy?

I never mentioned a maximum. I referred to two ringers per bell as the minimum to be sure all bells would always be rung. I would never set a maximum.
In the early 1980s our band had just over four ringers per bell. We extended service ringing time, extended the practice and ran a second practice, either for the less experienced or for a quarter. It took some managing but it was at the start of our most successful period as a band, so hardly something to try to prevent by turning people away. Of the 35 that joined the band over the previous eight years, half were experienced ringers and half were local recruits. We would have been foolish to turn away the experienced ringers, and the recruits came forward without much effort and very few of them dropped out.

I think it's a rather sweeping step to interpret 'tend to take more effort to get into' as 'dismissing as not suited to'.

which of Simon's comments put you off? He was talking about teaching a band from scratch, whereas I assume you learnt in an existing band that already rings methods.

Would you say it's almost impossible to teach a new band from scratch and expect them to be a method ringing band without considerable ongoing support? — Simon Linford

In the book (worth reading, download from CC shop) Wilf Moreton said he had started several bands from scratch.
I've never done it as an outside, but in my teens, three of us who had recently learned effectively built a band from scratch around u with minimal external help, and in a few years we were the leading QP tower in the county. But that was the 60s when more things were possible. To start with a couple of teenagers wouldn't be allowed to run a tower and teach lots of youngsters now.

the difficulty we had was getting out of being in charge — Simon Linford

More recently I helped a very weak band get on its feet, and I made it clear that my aim was to get them to the point they didn't need me. Even so it was 3½ years before I actually made my exit. I didn't do any handling teaching, so it was more M2 territory rather than M1.

You refer to the split pin – in the trade we called them ‘cotter pins’ — Richard Norman

I'm not 'in the trade' but I've never heard a split pin called a cotter pin. More to the point, a cotter pin is completely different, it's a pin with a taper used to hold things together, for example on a bike pedal to fix the cranks to the shaft.

starting from scratch is obviously hard but you have a clean slate, so although it takes a lot of effort you can set a positive culture. In the long run that might prove more successful than feeding recruits into a moribund tower with a negative culture.
The CC published a book on teaching a new band from scratch. I don't know where it's still in print but you may be able to find one somewhere if not.

The rule of thumb I two ringers per bell. Obviously that will vary a bit with the nature of the band - whether they all put ringing first or whether they have busy lives with lots of other commitments - but in my experience it seems about right.
I wouldn't turn recruits away outright, but on a few occasions when our teaching was at capacity we asked people to go on a waiting list until those ahead of them had progressed.

all penetrations through the floors ought to be fire resisting — Mike Shelley

I wonder what a fire resistant rope hole looks like.

Relatively small apertures will allow quite a lot of sound to pass though — Peter Sotheran

We installed (external) sound control in 1982 using double glased shutters that I had designed to achieve a 20dB reduction. After installation someone suggested adding foam plastic draft excluder round each shutter, as icing on tjhe cake. I remember when we fitted it, as I closed the final shutter with iot on we noticed the traffic noise disappear, which we hadn't noticed before. So coling the final mm or so made an audible difference. I still do that trick to show visitors how effective the sound control is.

I am not sure this sort of stuff is explained anywhere other than by asking someone else — Simon Linford

There must be some information somewhere. I recently discovered that one of our youngsters is the current (7 day and 30 day) leading composer on CompLib. I've told him a few snippets and encouraged him, and I suspect others might have too, but I assume he picked up a lot for himself - not sure where though.

The Italians do seem to have created a stronger bond between their communities and their bells/bellringers than we have. — Simon Linford

That comes over very clearly. I've just watched George Perrin's video again and while the production quality is just as good the content is quite different, with the focus almost entirely on the experience and activity of ringers. Only half a minute out of the whole nine minutes was about the community view of ringing. I didn't count but my impression of the Italian film was much more balanced, not just the views from outsiders but the ringers showing they were aware of their role in the community.
It could be said that the comparison is unfair. It's reasonable fo a video was aimed at recruitment to focus on what being a ringer is like, but you wouldn't recruit into an orchestra without mentioning the role of concerts and the delight of audiences.
So why do we not feel such a strong bond with the community (and they with us) as in Italy? I think it may be the downside of Belfry Reform. When the Church took over ringing it gave us an enormous boost with the propotion of change ringing and the connectivity provided by universal ringing societies. And the introduction of ringing for church services probably increased the amount of ringing, and in doing so shifted the focus away from community ringing. While the church was strong that wasn't a problem but with churchgoing a minority activity it means most people see ringing as 'something the church does' rather than 'ringing our bells'.
We still have a lot of community goodwill, probably driven by the psychological effect of the sound, but we need to build much stronger community bonds if ringing is to thrive in the future.