Ringing Forums

would involve training for it to be used

This is apparently a common misconception. We were trained at work that you don't need training, as nothing bad can happen from using the machines when they don't need to be etc, and machine will usually talk you through what you need to do.

The fear is that, somebody has a cardiac arrest and nobody uses the AED that is there because they think they need to be shown how to use it. So the patient dies.

I can see why the cathedral would say the cost is too much when they already have one in the building. Not sure what the disclaimer is for that visitors are issued with; you can't indemnify yourself against any issues that would be covered under the Health and Safety at Work etc Act and as long as the number of steps is signed at the bottom, then surely it becomes the responsibility of the person undertaking the ascent to be satisfied they can climb that number of stairs.

I think filming requests come in two varieties, and I have a similar discussion regularly with online video/photocreators:

• are you doing them a favour (providing something for a feature they are doing which isn't about you/your subject?
• are they doing you a favour by providing free publicity which although it is filling column inches/tv time, could equally be a story about a cat stuck up a tree?

In the first case, for example filming ringers as part of a drama where a wedding goes wrong and someone has to escape via the tower, and they charge they plough through the middle of all the ringers, then yes, you should get a fee.

If it is the second, then there is probably no budget to draw from, especially if it is local reporting: they are reporting on you and you want to get something (publicity!) out of it without paying for an advert. In which case, unless it is a proper feature with someone like the BBC, you are unlikely to get any money and even less likely to get a report on tv, if you demand it!

As for admin to get it sorted and timescales? Thar, I'm afraid, is the world of the voluntarily and current affairs sectors colliding!

An interesting read as ever, thanks @Simon Linford.

RE Bluebell's Challenge, when I initially read about this it didn't have "The Challenge is open to all Young Ringers, Girlguiding and Scout Association members." in the opening paragraph, so I thought for Girlguiding it was only for the "Guides" (and not the younger sections, ie Rainbows and Brownies). Well done for adding this whoever thought to do it, you've potentially gained two participants as a result (see below)! :clap:

I had missed the bit about "all sections" in the PDF, or I maybe read it as meaning "all (local) units" rather than the age bands. Maybe we should say "of all ages", as "sections" seems to be a bit jargonny? Even in your post above Simon I read "for Guides and Scouts" as being the 10 years old plus members.

My youngest daughter is just about to go from Rainbows to Brownies, so I will try and encourage her to do this - being the diddiest girl in her class, there is no way she could realistically learn to ring tower bells at the moment, but this will hopefully be a good introduction. (her big sister, who does occasionally come out and do some backstrokes and occasional handstrokes with the Sussex Young Ringers has just aged out from Brownies and isn't going up to Guides, but does like a badge, so maybe I can convince her to do this one as a young ringer!)

I struggled to learn to ring up, it's definitely not the best thing I do now - losing my glasses twice to a wild rope I hadn't kept tension in didn't help!

With the last coil, and this is probably a result of seeing a stay broken whilst somebody else was ringing up and reading up on the subject, I realised I never wanted to have "the last coil" in my hand, for fear of being yeeted* into the ceiling, and therefore was jettisoning it too soon!

What I found the worst though, is that the longer I spent trying to get the flippin' bell up (I was doing this after having Covid and whilst we were all wearing masks as a matter of course at the time, so running out of puff), the more conscious I became of the rest of the band waiting to start their practice, and the tenser I became until I was trying to ring up like a robot with no joints in my arms or legs!

Of course, in retrospect, I realise the rest of the band were completely unbothered, empathetic and nobody is anywhere near prima donna status when it comes to practice time being eroded by a learner.

* I'm down with the kids, just so you know!

A weird thing happened this morning; I very rarely turn the TV on in the morning, but I was having breakfast before an early dentist appointment and just popped it on for the news.

Within 30 seconds they were doing a thing about bell ringing and lo and behold Mr Linford appeared!

Apparently the link is only live for a day... get it now whilst stocks last!

BBC Breakfast 1 hour 53 mins in

I regularly ring at a few towers (my own has no peal boards at all!) and also tend to get out and about locally at various events, and looking at the boards for the last 30 years you'd be hard pushed to find a quarter, let alone a full peal that didn't feature at least one of a handful of names, many of them being made up entirely (or at least the inside ringers) of that group.

Not that it's a bad thing (they enjoy it, and good luck to them, they are a group made up of some of the best ringers I've met), and there are a few under 50s that are regular participants, but I've certainly not had or overheard any conversations of people "looking forward" to being able to ring their first peal.

Maybe one day I'll do one, but it certainly isn't a target, in the same way a quarter peal is, then more advanced quarters will be.

Would be interesting to see the % of peals rung by ringers who started ringing under 21 (regardless of how old they are now) and those who started as an adult with all the disadvantages that brings (I think they call it 'life getting in the way'!)

My father is the secretary of a local historical society and my mother does the newsletter. I'd imagine that their membership demographic would have a similar shape to most ringing associations (probably with even fewer under 60s).

They introduced the option to pay membership, books etc by card at their AGM. I think my dad said not one person paid by card. However he did have to bank a dozen cheques and the quarterly newsletter is still a printed booklet, despite it costing £10 a year per member to produce.

With the examples above of the problems societies face managing life memberships, mergers and (often unnecessary) fear of GDPR it is a wonder more don't fold due to the stubbornness of their own members!

Well done for your efforts, they show modernisation is possible

However ringing is generally well out of date in its attitude to money and what people would be willing to pay. If only we charged a little more we would be able to do far more.

I've just done a quick google search to see what it would cost to take up one of the alternatives to bellringing. — Roger Booth

As a parent who is always having to pay for those alternatives, when I took up ringing I was quite surprised to find that, other than £8 to join the county's association, there were no other actual costs involved. No tower/session costs, no materials/equipment costs etc

Personally I'd put ringing in the "local football" and "workout classes in the village hall" category, where you'd normally have a taster session or three free, and then a weekly/monthly/yearly subscription. This morning I've just paid £40 to the community radio station I volunteer with for a year's fees, and £40 for my daughter's Rainbows subs for the year.

As far as I'm concerned, the mix of learning, improving (or not!), doing your first x, y or z is all part of the same thing ("you never stop learning"). It became obvious that the two limiting factors for ringers are their own ability and their ambition. Ringers who are happy to do rounds and call changes on a Sunday and still need a bit of help when the bells in front of them move are just as welcome as those who do a peal of spliced caters once a month.

Training shouldn't be a chore, and not everyone can be a trainer; the limiting factor often seems to be those who have little patience for learners taking longer than they would like to get decent striking in, but also aren't willing to come in 20 mins earlier with some others from the band to help get that person to a point they feel relaxed, even if it is only ringing rounds.

We might do even better for the Fund if we made it easy for all members to contribute any amount they choose — PeterScott

We've gone a bit OT but Sussex have gone online this year for all* renewals and just before the payment point you get to donate to the BRF and two other funds, if you so wish. Given the association membership is so cheap (£8) I would hope that donations to the other funds will be significantly higher than before, as donating is easy.

* all, except those that can't and maybe those whose principles about not doing stuff online are over and above the additional admin they know it causes for volunteers who have process their stuff manually [maybe! Certainly the case in other non-ringing organisations I've been involved with....]

So which of these should I use to be sure that I can keep abreast of national & regional ringing topics? I'm afraid that from what I read in the press, both Whatsapp and rather more so, Instagram are badly tainted with inappropriate and pornographic material and I have no wish to become involved with either. Now that my 'Nigerian cousins' have stopped pestering me with details of the wealth allegedly awaiting me, I find emails quicker, safer and simpler to use. — Peter Sotheran

I think what @Jason Carter means is that communication via WhatsApp (less so Insta) is what a lot, I'd even go as far as saying the majority, of people use for casual group communication in the UK (40.23 million users in 2021 apparently). Although the fact that groups reveal all participant info makes it impractical for large group use (even if a group is Admin broadcast only, you still see everyone in it). Pornography is only an issue if you know someone that sends it to you!

In my limited (14 months of ringing) I think the current demographic of ringers certainly leads towards a majority of ringers who are happy with their achievements, happy to ring on a Sunday and on the odd other occasion but aren't interested in what is going on in the larger organisations (district/guild/Central Council etc). I'd probably have to travel around a bit to find someone else that isn't on one of the local association committees and who reads the blogs and posts on the Central Council website, let alone visits here. Maybe some areas are different, or maybe everyone keeps their cards close to their chests, but for the last couple of months every tower I've been at the discussion has been if you've had your booster for Covid yet and if the appointment was the same time as the flu jab - I've not heard anyone discussing the new portable-ring or if DMO is the way ahead!

For me, as a 40 something, Facebook and the CCCBR weekly email drop are where I get most of my ringing info. I've only ever purchased 1 copy of The Ringing World (the Queen's death edition, to see our ringing in it, only to find out after buying it that an hour of Call Changes wasn't worthy of the grade due to the (understandable) workload for the publishers.

If it helps I get my info:

• Tower Level: WhatsApp (2 discussions of a few messages a week, per tower maybe) and occasional e-mail from TC
• District Level: e-mailed newsletter every 3 months
• Association Level: Facebook, website for events or any resources
• CCCBR: Simon's blog, other news on the website sent in the email, just joined here
• Reference: Bellboard and Dove online
• Other: Bellringers group on FB, Bellringers Learners (quiet) on FB, I set up an Instagram account and admire and like other people's bells and towers but don't really get much more than that out of it, YouTube for ART and other videos about specific subjects