Ringing Forums

↪Ian Sterritt That's the same link you posted a couple of weeks ago. Did you mean to post a different one? — John Harrison

I discovered Ian's post had been lurking in a moderation queue for about 3 weeks, so released it. Sorry for the delay and probable duplication.

The most compact description of the ringing would seem to be within the performance report -1234-1234-14.34.14-1234-12,34 (30 characters) — PeterScott

But which could you remember a month later?

Minimus ringers ran out of new methods to ring for which a single extent was possible. They then started exploring methods that comprised multiple extents. Great Massingham TP Minimus is an example. While it is false within each lead, the plain course contains exactly three extents, so is true - making it easy to ring true performances. Methods like Bristol Minimus (now Demi-Bristol Alliance Minimus), which has been rung at least since the 1970s are trickier, since the plain course is false - while containing one extent, it contains multiple rows from more than one other extent. Nevertheless, that can be rung in true performances by varying the hunt bell.

On higher numbers, methods inadvertently false in the plain course were created as link methods in spliced. The methods are generally rung a lead at a time, and in combination with other methods form true peals. The former Methods Committee of the Central Council came under much criticism for introducing a concept of non-method blocks to describe them, when it was much more straightforward to remove the rule that said that methods had to be true in the plain course. The Framework for Method Ringing, implemented in 2019, did just that.

I have approved the post :smile: These forums have the ability to like posts, but a decision was made to turn the feature off. I think is useful - better than having to post just to say I agree.

The first thing I heard her asking someone else was "what's a course?" — Simon Linford

Good question! Not necessarily easy to answer concisely and definitively.

Here are some useful resources. Please share any others you have found:

• Central Council Compositions
• A Handbook of Composition by John Leary
• Method Splicing Part I and Part II by Giles Thompson [If someone has a copy of these, could they scan them so they can be made more widely available - they were self-published and no ISBN, so will be lost otherwise]
• Change Ringing by Wilfred G Wilson chapters 15-20
• Introduction to Composition - A webinar by Mark Davies
• An Introduction to Composing Part 1 - A webinar by John Warboys
• An Introduction to Composing Part 2 - A webinar by John Warboys
• Bellringing and Maths - A webinar by Mark Davies

The challenge to new composers in today's world is that computer programs have been developed that can search for compositions far faster than a human. That does not mean that there is nothing for a new composer to do, but it means that anything truly original is likely to come from some who can come up with a creative idea and have the computer tools or programming knowledge to be able to develop and explore their idea. Many of the principles used by composers in the era before computers, such as the use of false course head groups, have become as useful as doing multiplication with a log book or slide rule when you have a calculator sitting in front of you.

There seems to be some confusion. The video link Tina posted is promoting bell ringing in Spain, not Italy.

W&P is running a £1.59m HTB (Holy Trinity Brompton) experiment in Basingstoke involving four churches, that started in September 2022, including the rings at St Michael (8) and All Saints(10). The leadership team appointed have virtually no experience and the locals are not impressed!

https://anglican.ink/2022/07/21/diocese-of-winchester-receives-1-59-million-in-funding-to-support-church-growth/

Even before the Daily Mail article laid it out, it was clear that Julie is a pathological liar and misled the public about the very large sums of money (£millions) that were and would be raised if ringers rang quarters and peals. The sum she was accused of stealing was small by comparison.

If the methods are renamed, it does not change the historic performances printed in the Ringing World. Clearly those can't be changed. However, it would mean that the methods can be rung again in future without using her name.

The digest is generated completely automatically by the site, so this could only be influenced by changing the information in the original post. I suspect that would result in the summary being cut short even earlier, and it already doesn't show all the methods. It does give you a click through to the original post though, and that is better because you can then click on a method or interest to show you a blue line.

And here is another better one of the old Bow bells:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOb6hB_lfMI.

Not dated, but the recording is listed in Homochord Records catalogue of 1926.
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/32623773/homochord-1926-british-library-sounds

Some relevant context for possible dates:

• Big Ben in 1890: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOl5rPP47pA
• First broadcast ringing 1925 (though it is not clear from this whether the BBC have a recording of this, or whether it was played on the Feedback programme): https://ldgcb.org.uk/news/news2014/crowland_radio4.php
• Pre war Bow bells undated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13NJdbjhLFI
• Westminster Abbey 1947: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MhR03ddTSw&list=PL3kG3TM8jFKgMFvPFJcP2Na9KbVP0-8Up

This is just about understanding how to use Ringing Forums, @Peter Sotheran, and is nothing to do with Twitter or anything else. Above the box you type your message in are a number of icons. If you click @ and enter someone's name, it is called a "mention". It sends an email to the person mentioned alerting them to the mention.

Similarly, to upload your photo to the Forum you click on the icon with an upwards arrow, then select the photo from your computer. Once uploaded, it lists it underneath with an insert button so that you can include it where you want in you message - like this:

You can click the Preview button to see how it will look before posting the comment.

Click on the last icon to first upload your photo, @Peter Sotheran then you can select it to show in your message.

It is the case though that similar marks appear lower down on church walls, which is why I said "usual explanation". I agree that sharpening a blade is done flat to a stone, and why use the church anyway rather than spare stone blocks.

The marks are so numerous and deep at Sawston, you do wonder how many hundreds of years of pulling and replacement ropes would be required to make them by ropes attached to bells.

The usual explanation given is the sharpening of weapons or tools.

The answer is clearly yes, and the reason is the early focus on Doubles. In Tinntinnalogia, generating extents with plain changes is initially explored, but 'cross change peals' were considered more desirable. Even the stage name of Doubles tells us that maximising two pairs swapping was the aim. On 5 bells, cross changes (with a single place made) can only generate half the possible rows (60), and there are very few ways of doing this possible. The half hunt touch of Grandsire Doubles (bobbing alternate leads) is one, but if you want a principle so that all 5 bells do the same work, I think you only have Stedman, Carter and their reverses.

I don't think that we should kid ourselves that something has changed in this regard. I remember it being difficult to get the opportunity to ring a peal when I was learning in the 1970s, and I could ring Surprise Major before I rang one. You had to let the peal bands know that you were interested and then wait for them to be short for an attempt. You then had to ring well, otherwise it was likely you would not be asked again.

It also showed that the number of handbell peal ringers is also gradually increasing, with no apparent drop during or after Covid: 2019-313, 2020-318, 2021-323, 2022-327. Only three years have ever been higher: 1982-343, 1972-389, 1971:335.

sadly I couldn't nudge it to a course-layout similar to the above. — PeterScott

I have improved the layout in Complib (no calls compositions need a bit of help to format neatly).