Ringing Forums

Bouncing heavy bells off is relatively standard practice, and on occasion I have actually taught people how to do it. I have never heard of a stay being damaged as a result. To insist on a heavy bell being pulled off without bouncing would go against any principle of inclusivity if it prevented people from ringing heavier bells.

I agree with Simon that it is a common practice on big bells and that by trying to "outlaw it" your tower captain is, most likely unintentionally, reducing inclusivity.

The stay on a 37cwt bell will be a chunky piece of wood. When set a bell of that weight will only be a few degrees of rotation (2°-4° I would guess) beyond the balance point. If you think about it the maximum energy that can be dissipated into the stay is the energy from the bell falling under its own weight from the balance point to the set point, so falling a couple of degrees. The ringer can only put energy into the system by lifting the bell from the set point up towards the balance. if the ringer exceeds the energy requirement to get between the set point and the balance then the bells comes off the balance and its mission accomplished.

Its a completely different scenario to say a learner ringing a lighter bell without sufficient control where they can pull hard at one stroke and bounce the bell off the stay at the next stroke hard enough to bounce off the stay and back over the balance at speed.

The stay is made of ash which is a flexible wood which is designed to absorb a certain level of energy without damage, exactly the same as a sledgehammer or pick axe handle does. Those can be used virtually indefinitely without damaging the wooden handle. I'm sure you know this already but it might help to be able to frame it in these terms with your tower captain.

In terms of techniques other than bouncing the bell off, I will try and describe what I do (as a 6ft, approx. 80 kg person). I go up on my tiptoes and hold the sally as high as I can with my arms fully straight. I then sink down on my toes and hang on my arms, this shouldn't require your arm muscles to be tensed, you are hanging rather than pulling. I do this to take the stretch out of the rope, the bell has not moved off the stay yet. Its hard to estimate what is required to do this, but I'd say you want to put 30-40kg on the rope, so about half my bodyweight. After the treble ringer has said "Look to", I start to pull the bell off. To do this I think about dropping down off my toes to being flat footed, ultimately transferring all of my body weight onto the rope, and if need be I start to pull with my arm muscles, thinking about lifting myself off the box, this brings the bell up to, and over the balance.

I think the key is that I treat the pull-off as one single movement after the step to take the stretch out of the rope. I'm never aiming to get it to the balance and then holding it there. I'd say that the whole movement takes something like two seconds. I think something to avoid, and this might be where you are hurting yourself, is trying to jerk the bell with short impulses of force. Give it one firm, long duration pull and believe it is going to come off the balance. If you can, try and practice it by yourself where you don't have the added complication of trying to pull off in time with everyone else.

The final point I would make is that it is not easy, people who are very good at it make it look easy. It takes time and practice to perfect it. I've turned in 2 ton+ bells to peals and I've still failed to manage to pull a tenor off and come crashing into the following change.

The force required to pull off (any) bell is determined by the steeplekeeper, and their positioning of the end-stops on the slider's track and hence where the slider hits them. Many tracks are the same effective length as they were when delivered by the bellfounders, and could be improved with some small blocks of wood and a few nails.

Too lightly set, and the bell may accidentally be pulled off, and need more pulling-accuracy to stand. Too heavily set and only hefty ringers will try ringing the bell. Leaving a heavily-set bell up can bend the stay and make it even harder to pull off. ...

Useful articles in Tower Handbook

I agree with Jonathan! That is the way I was taught 67 years ago in a tower with a 23cwt tenor. There was never any talk of bouncing the tenor (or the 7th) to get it off its stay.
As Jonathan says, up on tip-toe, arms fully stretched holding the sally as high as possible, lower the heels to the floor and if necessary, 'drop' the knees a little. This will lift the bell off its stay up the balance point. 'Trebles Gone!' and a gentle squeeze will bring the bell in accurately after the fifth or seventh (or whatever).

Being the size of a slight 12-year old (under 5' and less than 1cwt), I use body weight to pull bells off, going up to full body weight (technique described by Jonathan) for heavy/deep-set bells. If that doesn't work then I bounce them off. As a last resort I ask for help! (Muscles don't work for me because I'm lacking in that department!)

Might not Jonathan Frye's post be submitted to the Ringing World as the basis of an article for publication on this point? "Heavier" bells are daunting for ringers who have never been guided as to appropriate technique. The first time many ringers experience the problems is on a 'tower outing' on which few present actually have enough experience on heavier bells to give clear instruction.

We have a 37cwt Tenor, and have always bounced it off (as if you're below a certain weight, it won't move) and we've never damaged it's original stay. Any liter set, and it's difficult to set. To bounce it off, with straight arms, you put your weight on the rope to take all the stretch out of it, this also straightens the ash stay (which due to the weight of the bell, and slight flexability of ash) then release the pressure on the rope momentarily to start the bounce (this takes timing and practice) and as the person on the Treble says "Trebles gone" you let the Tenor drop back for it's final bounce before pulling off behind the other bells.

Interesting - I have never thought of my own bodyweight in cwt! (1.5 cwt)

It helps us to explain the weight of the bells, especially the treble, to those who are not familiar with cwt: We have lots of non-ringing visitors :grin: